Will You Join Me in Voting for Neither Trump Nor Clinton?

I’m committing to not vote for Clinton or Trump, and you can do the same.

The Democratic Party’s undemocratic primaries are not over, and nobody has won them. It is entirely possible that Hillary Clinton will not be nominated for any office. That doesn’t prevent us from going ahead and committing to never vote for either her or Donald Trump for president of the United States.

Making this commitment could send a badly needed message to the world: There are people in the United States with some minimal level of decency. It could also kickstart the movement that will be needed to resist the regime of whichever of them wins. It could also alert Californian Democrats to the need to vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary.

There’s a cartoon floating around at which a Muslim U.S. voter tries to choose between “Ban my relatives from entering country” and “Bomb the s— out of my relatives.” Not much of a choice, is it? Especially when the bomber is following the model of our current president with his record deportations, and the banner is a loose cannon who’s proposed to kill the families of designated enemies in the Middle East.

This is the essence of the problem. Whichever of these two you were to vote for, you’d get wars, nasty policies toward immigrants, plutocratic policies toward wealth, and destructive policies toward the natural environment — barring the arising of a powerful popular movement to bring the government under control.

Sure, one candidate is a comically ill-informed jackass who hates women, while the other is a woman whose comically jackassy policies will come with great scholarly volumns of ill information. But where does either of those really get us?

Lesser evilism predictably produces a pair of candidates each cycle who are both worse than was the more evil candidate last time. This cannot go on forever, and has already gone too far. We need a nonviolent movement to reform our election system — something not done through elections. But there are plenty of good candidates, such as Jill Stein, to check or write in. We should vote for those good candidates and get right back to work on improving the world.

Will you click here and join me?

Here are a few reminders of who the “progressive” candidate of the “Democratic” Party is:

“For this former Republican, and perhaps for others, the only choice will be to vote for Hillary Clinton. The party cannot be saved, but the country still can be.” —Robert Kagan

“I have a sense that she’s one of the more competent members of the current administration and it would be interesting to speculate about how she might perform were she to be president.” —Dick Cheney

“I’ve known her for many years now, and I respect her intellect. And she ran the State Department in the most effective way that I’ve ever seen.” —Henry Kissinger

Nobody Beats This Record

  • She says President Obama was wrong not to launch missile strikes on Syria in 2013.
  • She pushed hard for the overthrow of Qadaffi in 2011.
  • She supported the coup government in Honduras in 2009.
  • She has backed escalation and prolongation of war in Afghanistan.
  • She voted for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
  • She skillfully promoted the White House justification for the war on Iraq.
  • She does not hesitate to back the use of drones for targeted killing.
  • She has consistently backed the military initiatives of Israel.
  • She was not ashamed to laugh at the killing of Qadaffi.
  • She has not hesitated to warn that she could obliterate Iran.
  • She is not afraid to antagonize Russia.
  • She helped facilitate a military coup in Ukraine.
  • She has the financial support of the arms makers and many of their foreign customers.
  • She waived restrictions at the State Department on selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Oman, and Qatar, all states wise enough to donate to the Clinton Foundation.
  • She supported President Bill Clinton’s wars and the power of the president to make war without Congress.
  • She has advocated for arming fighters in Syria.
  • She supported a surge in Iraq even before President Bush did.


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70 Responses to Will You Join Me in Voting for Neither Trump Nor Clinton?

  1. Why would anyone join a moron? The Bill of Rights are at stake. A Clinton win means Clinton will put four justices on the SCUSA. The USA will be over as you know it.


  2. diogenes says:

    I don’t have to join you because I beat you to it. But I won’t sign the petition because I don’t want the spam. Ditch the spam feature & I might.

  3. J_Bookly says:

    I’m not voting for either of those two, but not ready to sign anything unless/until we first have a discussion of Plan B. Currently wondering whether to write in Bernie Sanders or vote for Jill Stein (which I did in 2012). Are there other candidates people should consider? And aside from voting, what could we do to promote a political movement that could thrive and grow and be a real presence in 2020? Got a website or two to suggest visiting??

  4. jo6pac says:

    I’m voting for bernie in Calif. primary then Green Jill Stein in show time.

  5. tacitus voltaire says:

    who wants to join you in declaring themselves powerless in a major election in your own country, and – if you really are a progressive and not just a republican pretending to be one – why would you double the value of a pro trump vote and help to elect the first fascist president of the united states?

    what progressive would be stupid enough to do that?

    • diogenes says:

      What progressive would be fool enough (fooled enough) to vote for Hillary? If the “choice” is between her & Trump both choices are bad but Hillary has a long record to prove it.

      • tacitus voltaire says:

        not much of a counterargument. i can’t tell if you think that

        1) hillary is worse, in which case you are admitting that you are a trump supporter

        2) there is not difference between them, in which case you need to work on your judgement and ability to process information, or

        3) that hillary is merely “the lesser of two evils”, in which case you are merely illogical. did anybody ever point out to you that the lesser of two evils is still less evil?

        well, what is it?

        • Robert Barsocchini says:

          ‘Vote Hillary to Stop Don: That’s a Stance Based on Privilege, Racism, Solipsism’


          • tacitus voltaire says:

            not voting hillary to stop don:

            that’s a stance based on either selfishness, stupidity, or ratfuckery

            one sign of the weakness of any debating position is the sheer amount of verbiage and effort required in the attempt to put the point across

            you lose

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            hillary is more likely to cause nuclear war whereas trump might be worse for the environment?? seriously, sir, you disappoint me

            please make a better effort next time

          • dayanmao says:

            Really, you’re questioning someone’s ability to refute?

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            very few people are any good at it

          • dayanmao says:

            Wow. I think someone needs to go back to school. A little critical thought might help.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            flattery will get you nowhere

            how about some substance?

          • Robert Barsocchini says:

            You used the word ‘ratfuckery’ in your response to me below. I had just wanted to check if you were going to be calm and rational, but now that I see I am dealing with an angry person who is here to yell, not learn, I say unto you, enjoy voting for a terrorist 🙂 I’m sure it will make you very happy, as you clearly are now.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            enjoy working to elect the first fascist president of the united states

            you are not fooling anybody with your ruse of being a progressive or being against a trangressive foreign policy. after all, you are advocating assisting trump, somebody who proposes tbe most dangerous and confrontational foreign policy ever advocated by an american politician. somehow you feel that by making feeble efforts to portray yourself as sanders supporter nobody will notice this

          • Robert Barsocchini says:

            -Straw man; as you already saw in linked piece, I would advocate not voting for terrorists/facists – Hillary and Trump both are these – and instead choosing the lesser of two evils: focus on not dissipating the alternative energy we see now by, instead of supporting one of the fascist parties, continuing to build alternative parties and work towards something that would be like a democracy. I am on record saying this and I thought you saw it, but I remember you also indicated, which came as little surprise, that you were not much of a reader.

            -That you say Trump would be the ‘first fascist president’ suggests something about your ethnic origins (my shot in the dark would be Europe) and calls into question your understanding of history and willingness to read (there’s that hangup again) broadly and gain an understanding of global context apart from the US corporate echo chamber.

            -You mentioned a line that said Hillary would be more likely to cause a nuclear war and Trump might be worse for the environment, and seemed to think this was wrong. I’ll flesh it out for you: Most likely country for US to get into nuclear exchange with (see Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, for example) is Russia. The ‘left’ berates Trump for being ‘friends’ etc. with Putin. Hillary has referred to Putin as ‘Hitler’, as part of her support for coup in Ukraine. More details available in references at the link I sent you, but again, might require some reading. Sorry 🙁

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            i’m sorry, there are a host of much more obvious policy (not to mention personality) differences between the two beyond your rather diffuse and suppositious musings and extrapolations about what might happen in foreign policy

            any opinions about those?

          • Robert Barsocchini says:

            Yes, you are free to check my work on these, which is easily available, and I would also suggest recent articles on the topic by John V. Walsh.

            Take a look and then let me know which specific policy differences you are referring to that would be more devastating than nuclear war, other than environmental destruction, which I already mentioned.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            it can hardly be said that you make a convincing case that hillary as president would lead to nuclear war. as for trump on this issue, he has already proposed allowing nuclear weaponry to be developed in places where it has never even been contemplated, and degrading the american position of military dominance of the world, whatever opinion you may have of it, by destablising nato and changing its mandate

            so i don’t at all accept your argument that a president hillary would make the world more dangerous than a president trump

            as for other positions, briefly, hillary has long been a proponent of long overdue domestic policy improvements such as expanded health insurance coverage, subsidies for daycare (perhaps you underestimate the importance of this in an america where most households now require two earners to stay afloat), more rational income and investment tax policies (as we all well know the gop has spent decades destroying the progressive tax structure), improvements in higher education financing, and much better regulation of the dangerous practices in the financial markets that as we have all seen can have such devastating consequences for all of us. she has taken positive steps on all of these issues as you can read here:


            while i support bernie’s postions rather more than hillary’s, the differences can be summed up under the rubric ‘incrementalism’, which, if you were really a sanders supporter as you claim, would be a word that would be prominent in your mind. yes, hillary takes a frustratingly incremental approach to progressive policy initiatives, but this makes the difference between her and bernie, as opposed to the vast gulf between those two and the ugliness that is the modern gop, to be one of degree rather than one of kind

            the fact that this site single mindedly concentrates on demonizing hillary with an unseemly passion, while giving trump a few casual whacks and generally ignoring progressive positions, tends to degrade many of the claims that are made here about being true progressives

            tell me – what possible justification can there be for a progressive to declare that somebody who has a track record of supporting universal health care, rational taxation, education support, family issues, & etc & etc could possibly be anywhere near as bad as a man who promises to make racism institutionalized in american law running for president in a party that has promised to repeal the social contract and implement the 17th century?

            that your position is ‘progressive’ – this is really implausible

          • Robert Barsocchini says:

            Hahaha! Okay, you’re done. It’s what I suspected: you’re just an ignorant crypto-neocon. Thanks for the link to Wikipedia, though, big guy!

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            can’t sustain your position in a debate, is it?

            too bad

          • Robert Barsocchini says:

            Here, this isn’t for you, because I’m not trying to sway a neocon extremist, but in case anyone gets this far down the list of your evasions, straw-men arguments, etc.:


            You’ll love this because you’re a ‘progressive’, remember? 😉

          • tacitus voltaire says:


            that’s humorous 🙂

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            Hillary Clinton supported, in the 1980s, the US-proxy terrorist insurgency in Nicaragua known as the Contras.

            With Hillary Clinton as his close “partner in power”, Bill Clinton was likely involved in coordinating drug and gun shipments into and out of the US through a rural airstrip in
            Mena, Arkansas. The federal government was running Contra operations from the airbase while Clinton was governor of that state. (see Morris)


            this is, again, more humorous than anything else.

          • Robert Barsocchini says:

            Thanks for further stressing that you don’t read by confirming you haven’t read Roger Morris’s (who you have probably never heard of) book on the Clintons, though anyone looking at this thread already knew that. Got another Wiki article for me? 🙂

            Here is the intro to the twenty or so pages of text from the link I posted above, and then I will sign off and give you the last word, since you are more interested in being incendiary than having a discussion, as I originally assessed, anyway.

            “At the end of the year in which Hillary Clinton left her position as Secretary of State, 2013, the Obama regime’s USA was voted, in Win/Gallup’s global poll, as the greatest threat to peace in the world, with the runner-up, US-ally Pakistan, receiving three times fewer votes, and Russia receiving twelve times fewer votes.

            This was largely due to multiple international crimes committed by the US, such as aggressive bombings and subversions of elected governments, which were co-schemed and staunchly advocated by Hillary Clinton, and ultimately ordered and perpetrated by Barack Obama.

            While “respected conservative political commentator Norman Ornstein” writes in the American Academy of Arts and Sciences journal that the Republican Party is a “radical insurgency – ideologically extreme, scornful of facts and compromise”, historian Roger Morris, PhD, in his best-selling examination of the Clintons and their sleazy and criminal deeds along their rise to power, finds that the Democratic Party, although in his opinion the “lesser of evils”, is “equally bereft, corrupt, and unable or unwilling to face itself.” (468-9)

            In the spirit of hope and change, Hillary Clinton’s violent crimes and shady dealings:

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            is that what you are doing? engaging me in a discussion? it seems to me that you answer every point by pushing your essay at us. this would be the fifth, i think, comment wherein you assert that all will become clear if only we read your wonderful composition

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            yeah, i assure you i’m utterly intimidated by “credentials”

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            you “don’t read” if you “haven’t read”

            apparently this site is devoted to flogging the works of one mr roger morris, without whom no literacy is possible

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            Amazing Discovery!!!

            the wife of the governor of arkansas was the brains behind reagan’s secret foreign policy!!

            hehehe some great “research” you got there…

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            so, mr barsocchini has revealed for you all his technique of “research” and debate here: he takes a report, unsubstantiated but i’ll accept it as true, that there was a base in arkansas where weapons were being shipped out by the reagan administration to the contras, and then, presto change-o, makes a gigantic leap over the facts to this:

            Hillary Clinton supported, in the 1980s, the US-proxy terrorist insurgency in Nicaragua known as the Contras.

            wow! amazing! with “logic” like that you could “prove” practically anything. hey, i grew up in nyc near where john and yoko lived. i must have written half of john lennon’s songs! obviously!!

            mr barsocchini, please do not belabor us with this chop logic. there are serious issues out there in the real world of 2016

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            my work

            really, you shouldn’t refer to your online musings as ‘work’. were you paid? published in a peer reviewed publication?

          • Robert Barsocchini says:

            Again, info easily available, unlike for an anonymous, crypto-neo-con on a message board 😉

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            flattery will get you nowhere

            i do however really enjoy your vainglorious references to essays posted on blogs as “my work”

          • Robert Barsocchini says:

            Idiom and a straw man, then link to Wikipedia. Consider me floored. You, sir, are one impressive, furious white neocon!

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            temper, temper!

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            you don’t give me the impression of somebody who knows a lot about hillary’s career. perhaps you could deign to read the article and learn something, and maybe even then actually engage me in debate instead of repeatedly pushing your blog post on us by way of “answer”

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            ‘ratfuckery’: pretending to be a member of one faction in a political party in order to sow dissention within that party and discourage its voters from participating in the election

        • dayanmao says:

          So we’re only allowed to pick from your three?

          I’ll add one more, number 4, we have Hillary’s career and Actual Record to go on. It’s Not Good on Any issue. She has Failed at everything – unless you count being a totally corrupt, neocon, neoliberal, War Criminal an accomplishment (while lining her pockets with 100’s of Millions).

          Say what you will about Trump, I’m a Sanders supporter. You can only speculate what Trump might or might not do – we have Hillary’s history as a guide, we know she is worse because we have her Actual Record.

          Hillary supporters are just plain, clueless.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            so you admit being a trump supporter

            just as long as we’re clear on that

          • dayanmao says:

            I’m not, never have been. Why don’t you, since you seem to believe this, explain exactly why Hillary would be better than Trump. I’ll wait.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            you’ve already explicitly said that hillary would be worse than trump. obviously that makes you, as i said, ipso facto a trump supporter

            as i commented to another poster here, give me a couple of hours and i’ll give you a number of reasons to vote for hillary. but, just for starters, she was putting her reputation on the line way back in 1994 to promote universal health care

            that’s one

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            so, ahem, try speculating on what trump would do and get back to me when you have actually given it some thought

            that might be a good start

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            Say what you will about Trump, I’m a Sanders supporter. You can only speculate what Trump might or might not do – we have Hillary’s history as a guide, we know she is worse

            if you argue that trump is better than hillary, ipso facto you’re a trump supporter

            don’t try to give me this b.s. that you’re a bernie supporter but

            i don’t think you’ll find too many people stupid enough to fall for an argument like that

            but good luck trying!

          • dayanmao says:

            Said the Brock puppet.

            I get it, you’re a Nader blamer too. Sigh, some people never learn. You realize the Washingtons Blog has had many articles (dozens maybe) that tear apart that myth.

            Voting for Bernie, who I will be, is not a vote for Trump, nor is it a vote for Clinton. It is a vote for Bernie.

            Again, you have utterly failed to mention a single reason why anyone should vote For Hillary.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            see above for starters re hillary, and more later

            as for putting words and opinions into my mouth, this is a losing strategy. what’s a ‘brock’?

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            yanno, trump has an Actual Record as well. in fact, he’s been in the public eye for longer than hillary

            since you’d like to claim, however implausibly, that you’re a sanders supporter, why don’t you try proving it to me with a progressive critique of trump’s career

          • dayanmao says:

            However implausibly? Whatever you say pal. I’ve got you’re “know it all” right here.

            Again, you’ve posted Nothing in favor of your favored candidate. Only fear Trump. That’s not a winning strategy when Hillary has a horrible record on everything from climate change, to civil rights, to non-stop wars of aggression all you’re trying to do is deflect.

            Honestly, the Washingtons Blog is Much Better than that. I rarely comment but have been reading it for years. The people who comment tend to be highly educated and informed.

            Frankly, I was surprised to see your comment here.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            actually, my favorite candidate is bernie. i’ll post a number of reasons to vote for hillary, should she become the nominee, in a bit if you’re patient

            i’m sorry that my comments challenged your emotional security. i’ll take better care with my vocabulary in the future

          • dayanmao says:

            WTF are you on about now?

            I don’t have time to debate dishonest Hillary trolls. Have fun.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            ok, run away, be my guest

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            you are welcome to explain why you would call me ‘dishonest’. i’d enjoy hearing your justification for that

        • Anarcissie says:

          There are evils which, although perhaps lesser, are still morally unacceptable. Among them are committing, assisting, or seriously proposing war crimes. Both Clinton and Trump have proposed actions of a kind for which people were condemned to death at the Nuremberg War Crimes trials; and which Clinton actually voted for or otherwise supported. I am not obliged to attach myself to war criminals by voting for them, and I won’t.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            then you will make yourself powerless in the election, and by disdaining to assist the lesser evil, assist the greater evil to seize power

            for, despite your pretense of not being able to discern them, you know very well that there are vast differences between trump and the republicans on the one hand and hillary and the democrats on the other

            people who allow themselves to be powerless are like the person in the famous poem who did nothing to help while others were carted off. this isn’t only about you

          • Anarcissie says:

            I am already powerless in the election as far as affecting its outcome. The chance that my single vote will determine the election is infinitesimal, that is, zero for all practical purposes. However, by voting for either Clinton or Trump I will attach myself to their criminality. Ordinary corruption is one thing; deliberate mass murder to achieve personal political advantage is beyond the limits of what I can tolerate.

            Think about what your vote means.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            who taught you that you are powerless? that person, even if it is yourself, is not working for your best interest, your self interest, or the good of all of us

            what does your vote mean? it means you are not powerless, and that under even the worst conditions with the worst candidates you can at least do your part to make your voice heard, even if it is only to say “no, i will not agree to be treated that badly”

            the voice that tells anybody that they are powerless is the voice of dictatorship. it is the voice of the reality of george orwell’s nightmares

          • Anarcissie says:

            The effective powerlessness of a single vote in an election involving millions of voters is obvious mathematically. (I can spell it out, but it’s demonstrating what is already plain.) To say otherwise is to speak mystically, or at least religiously; and then you’re on my turf, where a vote attaches you morally to those you vote for. I think that does matter, not to the outcome of the election, but to the voter. And I think we’ve reached a stage where at least some of us know that wholesale slaughter is no longer acceptable even when carried out by governments and ruling classes. One way of conveying this — if you think voting sends a message — is to vote for persons who have not committed or supported, or who have not proposed, that kind of crime. I don’t see how you can argue with this, even if your choices are different. It’s a matter of values, of what value you set on the lives of others.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            “effective powerlessness”

            any argument for not voting is stupid and dishonors the thousands who gave their lives for our right to vote. didn’t anybody in your family fight for democracy in wwii?

            but i’m assuming you’re not stupid enough or propogandized enough to not vote at all and throw away your birthright, so

            who are you voting for, then?

            and what do you think will happen if trump wins?

            and what are you doing positively, concretely, to stop these “war crimes” that you believe hillary and barack are committing?

          • Anarcissie says:

            Millions fought and died to advance the cause of Naziism. This does not motivate me to be a Nazi. In general, that sort of argument is obviously fallacious.

            Both the Green and Libertarian parties will probably be on my ballot this fall. This is looking like a very good year for third-plus parties. So there probably someone to vote for who isn’t an actual or would-be mass murderer.

            I believe that if Trump wins, there is a good chance he will start a war. With Clinton, it’s a virtual certainty. To get an idea of the kind of thinking Clinton and her associates do, read this critique of it: Peace by Assassination?. The people who operate in this way, including the Clintons, are deeply sociopathic.

            Now that the electoral system has failed, I think we are going to have to try to revive the anti-war movement. Only a small portion of the American people actually care about war and war crimes, but five or ten percent might be enough to make enough trouble to slow down the war machine. I don’t know exactly how to do that, but I’m looking around and will probably join some activist group if it looks like they can actually accomplish something.

          • tacitus voltaire says:

            but don’t come crying to me if you don’t vote and we get trump

            if that happens, then you will really find out what happens when you think you are too good to oppose the worst because the not as bad is not good enough for you

            reality is not a graduate seminar

      • tacitus voltaire says:

        also – do you claim to be a progressive?

        if so – let’s hear why a progressive thinks trump would be better for the progressive issues that interest you than clinton

    • Carl_Herman says:

      tacitus: why not join our voices that US leadership supports lie-started and illegal Wars of Aggression, bankster economics, and constant lies? Truly the Left and Right arms of one US current fascist political body are both evil. Why not state this and find allies rather than fight your allies?

      Trump: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/08/hoping-for-change-from-president-trump-eight-minutes-of-video-to-consider.html

      Clinton: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/03/clinton-bush-obama-stand-500-million-innocent-dead-intentional-policy-war-arrests-now.html

      • tacitus voltaire says:

        i prefer to do everything i can to fight fascism rather than sit back and do nothing at a time that america is at the crossroads, complaining daintily that the available choices are too impure for me to soil my hands with

        these are real choices that affect the lives of millions of people, not debating points in college

  6. tacitus voltaire says:

    to read the list of particulars “against” hillary that you post above, anybody would think you were encouraging traditional bush/mccain republicans to vote for her

    anyway, if you were hoping to catch progressives, you have a tin ear

  7. StephenBlackpool says:

    I want to make America great again. 😉

  8. Carl_Herman says:

    Thanks, David; sharp and important writing. I signed the petition. Feel free to use any of my work to support the position to not elect evil.

  9. Steve Spacek says:

    David: Both CLINTON, TRUMP live, operate from NEW YORK CITY—still T+L’s
    NUMBER ONE “America’s DIRTIEST CITY!” Both yet to campaign against BAD waste, water, air
    pollution injuring, KILLING CITIZENS!

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